Cva optima ballistics chart

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Michigan Gun Owners Community Forum > Firearms Issues/Discussions > General Firearms Discussion > Bullseye @ 100 yds, but can't hit the paper at 200 meters


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redeemed

11-15-2014, 08:44 PM

Hey all,

I just got my first gun a couple months ago. A CVA Optima V2 .50 Muzzleloader with Konus scope. Got it for the sole purpose of deer hunting south of the rifle line and being able to use it for both seasons. I've been to the range twice to sight it in and to just get comfortable shooting it. Today, I finally feel confident I have it sighted in close to perfect at 100 yds. After a minor adjustment, my last two shots were bullseyes. The range I went to had a 200M (218 yds) row of targets too, and I've been wanting to get a feel for longer range shots, which many people told me should be no problem with this gun.

First, I shot using the 200 yard ballistic markings on my scope. Didn't hit paper. Then I put another target below the first to see if I could mark it if it was going really low, and took the same shot. Nothing. After being told I could be possibly shooting over the target if the bullet was still rising, I aimed my crosshair (100 yd mark that I have zeroed in), right between the two targets....nothing. I can't figure it out. Could the bullet really be dropping over 20" in a difference from 100 to 218 yards? Or is it possible I could be shooting over the target? All of the ballistics information I've read does not show that a bullet would still be rising at 200 yards.

I am using Hornady SST 250 grain sabots, and 100 grains Pyrodex Triple 7's (two pellets).


truckerdave397

11-15-2014, 10:39 PM

I would try at 125 yards then at 150 yards. If it is hitting at 100 you just need smaller steps. I had a RUGER number one that was doing that only it shot to the right.


nrich1979

11-15-2014, 10:46 PM

You sound infinitely more skillful than I am with regards to this topic, but from what I understand and the little bit of experience with the topic I have, the range has more of a multiplier effect than a duplicatory effect.. IE.. an error at 50 yards, is not twice the error at 100 yards, and not 4 times the error at 200 yards..

If you're shots are rising into the target at 100 yards it's plausible that it's rising at over 200 yards.. could it also be that the bullet is slowing down so much that it's becoming inaccurate..


Shyster

11-15-2014, 11:16 PM

Have you played with increasing your charge to 3 pellets (assuming your ML is rated for it)?


Jungle George

11-15-2014, 11:22 PM

If you are shooting a 265 gn bullet using 100 grains of powder it is unlikely (though not impossible) that you are over shooting the target. Your muzzle velocity is probably in the neighborhood of 1800 fps so I don't think that your projectile is on the rise at 100 yards. As was stated earlier walking the distance out at shorter increments makes the task easier. Having someone spot while you shoot is also a good way to figure out what is going on.

When neither option is available to me and I'm dead set on figuring it out I simply shoot about a foot high, a foot low, a foot left and then a foot right. The gets me there 4 times out of 5.


It's definitely hitting low, unless your scope calibration is way off. A friend of mined has been trying to dial in his Nikon scope for two years, still not working for him. Wasted a bunch of pellets and expensive 250gr sabots in the process. I'd be holding over myself, not using the scope ballistic reticle.

After reading this again, he is using 3 pellets. Getting a larger(taller) target to shoot at until you figure it out will be the answer. Then you can assign a yardage to your reticle that you can rely on. Good luck!!


redeemed

11-16-2014, 08:53 AM

You sound infinitely more skillful than I am with regards to this topic, but from what I understand and the little bit of experience with the topic I have, the range has more of a multiplier effect than a duplicatory effect.. IE.. an error at 50 yards, is not twice the error at 100 yards, and not 4 times the error at 200 yards..

If you're shots are rising into the target at 100 yards it's plausible that it's rising at over 200 yards.. could it also be that the bullet is slowing down so much that it's becoming inaccurate..

Haha I'm sensing your sarcasm! I appreciate all of the responses. My gun can do 150 grains of powder but I don't really want to go there; right now I'll just have to keep my range at 100 yds max, which is probably a good idea anyways having never shot at a deer before! I'll have to wait until next year to get to some open land to step up the shot distance- the ranges I know only have 100 yds and then 200 yds or 200M. I should just take a 4'x8' piece of cardboard out there, lol. A guy spotting me said he saw the dirt "spray" above my target, but another guy said that it will always do that, even if you hit low. All I know right now is that I had a 32" long target, aimed in the middle, and hit nothing, so maybe it's slowly curving to the left or right, even though I was shooting bullseye at 100 yds. I really think I'll get a huge piece of cardboard though because it's driving me nuts!


bolonytony24

11-16-2014, 09:07 AM

i would also recommend walking target to 125, 150 yards. you are most likely below target . i would get spotter or just keep going up 6 " until you hit paper as long as your confident your L-R is good.


http://www.konuspro.com/img/uploads/product/KonusPro_275_Instructions.pdf

Is this your scope? It says nothing about fps of the bullet, so any claims to the reticle being accurate will be impossible. It also says to figure it out with your load, which you already know. I think 150grs will get it closer for you, but you'll just have to come up with your own dope chart.


Hot Bite Charter

11-16-2014, 10:07 AM

I agree with the others. I don't think 2 pellets is enough for 200 yards. You have to make sure that your crosshairs are perfectly aligned when using bdc reticle. For me the way to do that is to zero at 100 , then move to 125,150 ect. If the poi moves to the right or left the crosshairs are not perfectly aligned. I have shot many deer with my muzzleloader and none have been past 125 yards.


nrich1979

11-16-2014, 11:25 AM

Haha I'm sensing your sarcasm! I appreciate all of the responses. My gun can do 150 grains of powder but I don't really want to go there; right now I'll just have to keep my range at 100 yds max, which is probably a good idea anyways having never shot at a deer before! I'll have to wait until next year to get to some open land to step up the shot distance- the ranges I know only have 100 yds and then 200 yds or 200M. I should just take a 4'x8' piece of cardboard out there, lol. A guy spotting me said he saw the dirt "spray" above my target, but another guy said that it will always do that, even if you hit low. All I know right now is that I had a 32" long target, aimed in the middle, and hit nothing, so maybe it's slowly curving to the left or right, even though I was shooting bullseye at 100 yds. I really think I'll get a huge piece of cardboard though because it's driving me nuts!

Actually it's only a half sarcasm..

You probably do know more than me on the topic.. that part is true..


Walther

11-16-2014, 11:58 AM

I would doubt that a 250gr. bullet using black powder at any normal charge would continue to rise at 200 yards. Here's a sample trajectory for a 250gr. bullet from Barnes. Note the highest point of the path is around 75 yards.

All things being equal, and they're not, but if this were your trajectory, you'd be hitting about 6" low if sighted in at 100 yards.

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/upfiles/67649/26741C0FAE724F78B5717CA0E9AB3785.jpg


redeemed

11-16-2014, 02:23 PM

Is this your scope? It says nothing about fps of the bullet, so any claims to the reticle being accurate will be impossible. It also says to figure it out with your load, which you already know. I think 150grs will get it closer for you, but you'll just have to come up with your own dope chart.

yep that's it. Yes it definitely looks like I'm shooting low, it looks like if the bullet speed is 1800 fps at the muzzle (can't find this exact data) with 100grs, then my bullet drop is somewhere around 18"...and using 150grs that falls to only about 6". I figured there'd be a lot to learn in this sport other than just lining up crosshairs! Thanks again for all the help


MI-1911

11-16-2014, 02:31 PM

Long Range Muzzleloading
http://www.whitemuzzleloading.com/long_range_muzzleloading.htm


topgun

11-17-2014, 10:02 AM

Ever hear about a little thing called wind? At a little over 200 yards, it may be a factor, and you are shooting right or left, not high or low.


solarguy

11-17-2014, 11:31 AM

What kind of projectile exactly??

If yours happens to have a poor ballistic coefficient (lot's of drag, and pretty common) it will lose speed like crazy and you might be dropping 30" or more at 200 yards.

What kind of cross winds did you have?


troy


HaraTank

11-17-2014, 11:42 AM

I shoot a CVA wolf with a shorter barrel and a Nikon Prostaff BDC scope, and same projectile. You can reach 200 yards accurately and consistently, but you will need to bump up to 150 grains. When I moved out to 200 yards we put up an 8' x 4' piece of plywood to see just how low the difference between 100 and 200 yards was and adjusted from there. I don't remember exactly how much the difference was, but its a drop for sure.


Ol` Joe

11-17-2014, 11:46 AM

Go to Hornadies web site and look for their ballistic program. You can figure any bullets trajectory on it. Use the Barnes BC from the above chart 0.165 or the bullets BC of your choice, and a random velocity with in the realm of the powder charge you are using, say 1300-1800 fps. Don't over look adding a wind factor. A muzzy is affected by wind almost as bad as a 22LR as ranges increase. A 15-20 mpl wind could possibly have you off target at 200 easily.

Here is Hornadies calculator..

http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/ballistics-calculator


redeemed

11-20-2014, 08:02 PM

Ever hear about a little thing called wind? At a little over 200 yards, it may be a factor, and you are shooting right or left, not high or low.

I've never heard of wind :o Just kidding, but winds were dead that day. It definitely looks like it would be dropping alot now after going through everything everyone has sent. But after finding my hunting spot it looks like 100 yds will do me just fine.


Cletus

11-21-2014, 10:34 AM

Shooting the same 250 grain SST's and 120 grains of blackhorn (equivalent of 150 grains of pellets) I'm getting 14 inches of drop to 200 yards. So, I'm sure you are shooting low.


Hockey9019

11-21-2014, 03:33 PM

Gotta throw in an extra pellet bringing it up to 150 buddy and you will be on paper.


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Drop between 50 and 100 meters...

ORIGINAL: mustad

Muzzloader season opens for me tomorrow. I'm using a CVA Optima; powerbelt 295 grain copper clad aerotip bullets, 100 grains of pyrodex pellets (2).

I've sighted my gun in at 50 meters (55 yards) since it is most likely that I won't have to shoot that much further than this, if any. It appears that when I shoot at 100 meters (110 yards), my bullet is dropping 3.5 inches. Is that normal? Looking at powerbelts ballistics chart, they show the trajectory to be about 2/3rds of an inch higher at 100 yards than 50 yards. Is this information reliable? Granted I only shot 5 bullets, but the results were pretty consistent.

Thanks,

Please see this chart for your PB:

http://www.powerbeltbullets.com/docs/PBB26inchballistics.pdf

For the PB 295 copper clad using 100g of powder, the trajectory charts show you must be 3.48" high to be dead on at 150. You can drop your ballistics into here and get your drop:

http://www.sav10ml.com/pages/load_data/traj_basic_dat.html

I put in 295g bullet
.168 for BC
1620 for MV
50 yard zero and I get the following:

Range Velocity Energy Drop
0 1620 1719 -1.5
50 1432 1343 0
100 1271 1059-2.8
150 1144 857 -10.9
200 1052 725 -25.7

Give it a try. You are about 3" low at 100 yards with a 50 yard zero. If you drop the following parameters into theballistics calculator:

295g bullet
.168 for BC
1620 for MV
150 yard zero

you get nearly the chart displayed here:
http://www.powerbeltbullets.com/docs/PBB26inchballistics.pdf

for example the chart shows a bullet "drop" of +3.48 inches at 50 yardsin the above chart, but the program gives +3.6 inches high at 50 yards, pretty close, so I am confident of the results I said above. Hope that helps. Chap

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CVA Optima Elite .50cal Ballistic charts#270381601/06/09

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fellas2OfflineOP

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Does anybody out there know where I can get ballistic charts including trajectory data for my CVA Optima Elite .50 ML.
I've been shooting 2-777 pellets behind a 250gr Barnes Spitfire TMZ's and am looking for any type of data as far as bullet drop out to 250 yards.



Re: CVA Optima Elite .50cal Ballistic charts [Re: fellas2] #270404601/06/09
hossdanielsOffline

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Well, if you are at 1650-1700fps and couple inches high at 100, your looking at about a foot at 200, and close to 28-30" at 250 yds. Problem is that you are under 900 ft/lbs energy at 150 yds, IMO you dont want to be below that for deer sized game. Here is a link to put your info in if you like to check, its usually pretty close to real world, but always check your loads in your rifle.

http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/calculations/traj/traj.html

Longer range your going to need either a heavier bullet(I like the 300's), or more powder, or both.


Last edited by hossdaniels; 01/06/09. Reason: forgot the link


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Re: CVA Optima Elite .50cal Ballistic charts [Re: hossdaniels] #270436301/06/09

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Practice to 250 yards - a LOT - before ever attempting such a shot on a game animal. Ballistic calculators are all well and good, but often do not tell the real story.



WHUT?

Re: CVA Optima Elite .50cal Ballistic charts [Re: bigblock455] #270548801/06/09

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HaYenOffline

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Problem is that you are under 900 ft/lbs energy at 150 yds, IMO you dont want to be below that for deer sized game.



confusedconfusedYou actually buy into that crap some paid writer came up with?

Those are the same calculations we use to shoot 1000 yards. Can they be trusted? Pretty darn close for the money... money... money


Remember, not everyone has a happy ending, so be happy when you can


Re: CVA Optima Elite .50cal Ballistic charts [Re: HaYen] #270578901/07/09
hossdanielsOffline

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YES!!!! I have killed deer with less than that a couple of times with a handgun, then I bought a bigger gun!



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How much powder to load??? - chronograph

The CVA Optima V2 rifle was introduced at the 2013 SHOT Show in Las Vegas. Although it has the same name as previous Optima muzzleloaders and the stock and barrel are essentially the same, the new Optima V2 borrows its action and trigger designs from the top-of-the-line Accura V2 series.

The Optima V2 uses the same trigger-guard actuation breeching lever, which is an improvement over the old Optima�s breeching lever located in front of the trigger guard that looked like the safety on the Ruger Mini 14. The rest of the internal action components are also of the Accura design, with the exception that the trigger weight is not adjustable. In fact, at first glance, this rifle looks like an Accura with a one-inch shorter barrel and without the deluxe finish and grip features of the Accura V2 stocks.

The major difference that we could find was that the Accura V2 models feature a Bergara-branded barrel, while the Optima V2 has a "regular" CVA barrel. For those folks not familiar with the Bergara Barrels, this company supplies high quality center-fire barrels to many of the most respected rifle manufacturers in Europe and the USA. CVA uses these premium quality Bergara Barrels in its top-of-the-line Apex and Accura models. All of the Bergara-branded barrels used in these CVA guns are drilled from 416 stainless steel bar stock and button rifled.

All Bergara Barrels, be they for CVA or other manufacturers, are made in the same manufacturing facility as the standard CVA barrel. The parent company of CVA owns the Bergara Barrels plant. The major difference between a Bergara-branded barrel and a regular CVA barrel is that the Bergara-branded barrel is put through a special three step honing process that simulates hand lapping, except that it is more precise. This process removes any deviation in bore diameter. That being said, do not get the idea that the CVA branded barrels are cheap. In fact, in our tests, we noticed hardly any difference in accuracy at 100 yards between the two barrels (Accura V2 vs. Optima V2). Having been F-Class target shooters, we will speculate that maybe, just maybe, the Bergara-branded barrel would give a competitive shooter an edge, but for the average hunter, we do not believe that you could tell the difference.

CVA Optima V2 features and specifications

    �        416 Stainless Steel, Fluted, 26" Barrel - .50 caliber with 1:28" Twist Rifling

    �        Bullet Guiding Muzzle

    �        100% Ambidextrous stock

    �        Solid Aluminum Palmsaver ramrod (a neat cap that makes field loading easy)

    �        DuraSight� Integral Scope Mount or DuraSight� Fiber Optic Sights

    �        QRBP -Quick Release Breech Pug

    �        Reversible Hammer Spur

    �        CrushZone� Recoil Pad

    �        41" Overall length

    �        6.65 lbs.Total Weight

    �        14" Length of Pull

    �        Lifetime Warranty

The manual of the Optima refers to the trigger as a "neutral center of gravity" design to provide a light and smooth trigger pull with no creep. I will confess that the term "neutral center of gravity� doesn't mean much to me, but I will say that this gun had a two pound trigger pull out of the box with absolutely no creep. It was absolutely as crisp as any target trigger we have ever used. In this day and age, when so many companies are installing "lawyer-triggers" that make it virtually impossible to squeeze off a good shot, CVA should get well deserved credit for this one. In fact, when shooting on the range, one old chap named John asked if he could shoot the Optima. Of course, Jim let him. After the first shot, he asked if he could shoot it again, then a third time. After ten rounds, he proclaimed that he could shoot in matches with that rifle.

Jim thought he was exaggerating, until he pulled out his customized Anschutz 22LR; he was still shooting competitively at age 78. That pretty much says it all in regards to the trigger. Oh yeah, almost forgot to mention that once John got the hang of it, he put four rounds into the bull at 100 yards for a group measuring 3/4". Jim can only dream of shooting that well and I can only beat that if I use my 6mmBR. Old John is a shooter!

However, we are getting ahead of ourselves. We mounted a Hi-Lux TB-ML 3-9X40 muzzleloader scope on the Optima. This scope was designed by Toby Bridges specifically for muzzleloaders. It is unique in that it comes with range crossbars below the primary crosshair to provide an accurate point-of-impact for ranges out to 250 yards. Unlike conventional scopes with similar crossbars or mil dots, Toby and the folks at Hi-Lux fired more than 1,000 rounds, using different loads and bullets, to compile the four ballistic charts included with the scope.

We confirmed the accuracy and validity of the Hi-Lux charts in a previous article when we reviewed the TB-ML scope. That article can be found on the Scopes and Sport Optics "Scope Reviews" index page.

All that remained for us to determine is the inherent accuracy of the Optima V2 at 100 yards with the most common black powder substitutes: Blackhorn 209 powder, Alliant Black MZ powder, Hodgdon Triple7 pellets and IMR White Hots pellets. Muzzle velocities are provided for performance comparisons between the propellants. We fired five 3-shot groups with each powder/bullet combination to determine the average. The results are as follows:

100 grains of Blackhorn 209 Powder

  • Powerbelt AeroLite 250 grain: Average group size = 1.00" (Mean MV 2,015 fps)
  • Harvester 260 grain Scorpion PT Gold: Average group size = 1.00" (Mean MV 1,965 fps)

100 grains of Alliant Black MZ

  • Powerbelt AeroLite 250 grain: Average group size = 1.30� (Mean MV 1,880 fps)
  • Harvester 260 grain Scorpion PT Gold: Average group size = 1.25� (Mean MV 1,845 fps)

2 IMR White Hots 50 Grain Pellets

  • Powerbelt AeroLite 250 grain: Average group size = 1.13" (Mean MV 1,800 fps)
  • Harvester 260 grain Scorpion PT Gold: Average group size = 1.18" (Mean MV 1,770 fps)

2 Hodgden Triple7 50 Grain Pellets

  • Powerbelt AeroLite 250 grain: Average group size = 1.38� (Mean MV 1,725 fps)
  • Harvester 260 grain Scorpion PT Gold: Average group size = 1.25� (Mean MV 1,700 fps)

All four propellants performed well with both the CVA Aerolite and Harvester Scorpion bullets. For the average muzzleloader hunter, the accuracy difference between them is negligible.

The redesigned Optima V2 is an excellent shooter, regardless of the propellant you use. It is more than adequate for just about any hunting situation. Although we only ran our tests with 100 grain equivalent loads, in our discussions with the director of technical support at CVA, he told me that he has shot three pellet loads with no problems, although the recoil was heavy. In talking with the folks at Western and Alliant, they have used loads up to 110 grains with good results. However, once again, the recoil increases. Our feeling is that 100 grain loads are more than adequate.

Your muzzle velocities will vary depending on the condition of your barrel, the working bore of your gun and environmental conditions. The above values were taken from our Chrony and are posted to give the reader an idea of the approximate velocities to expect. However, as with any inline muzzleloader, you are throwing a heavy projectile downrange. As long as the velocity is sufficient to produce enough energy to take down your game, your primary concern should be accuracy and bullet placement, rather than velocity.

Some shooters have reported problems using Blackhorn 209 with the regular QRBP, so CVA, in cooperation with Western Powders, designed as an aftermarket item, a Blackhorn 209 breechplug for their entire line of rifles. We fired more than 120 rounds with it and did not experience any misfires or fizzles. If you prefer to shoot with Blackhorn 209 powder, we recommend that you order the Blackhorn 209 QRBP with your gun. It has a 2013 MSRP of $20.95.

With an MSRP of $391 ($317 for standard blued barrel with black stock), the Optima V2 should find a comfortable niche in the muzzleloading market and, as with all guns, you are likely to find them being sold at 10% to 20% below the MSRP at your local dealer. It is well made, comfortable to shoot and handles well. It is hard to beat a lifetime guarantee. Jim is keeping this one and intends to use it on his fall mule deer hunt here in New Mexico.

Note: We would like to thank the folks at Alliant, Hodgdon and Western Powders for generously providing us with enough powder to perform these tests. We are also very appreciative of the folks at BPI and Harvester for providing us with CVA Aerolite and Harvester Scorpion PT Gold bullets. Without the generosity of these companies, it is doubtful that we would have been able to conduct the preceding tests.

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Optima chart cva ballistics

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What Kind of Powder Should You Use In Your Muzzleloader?

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